Some guy trying to sell you a bar plate intercooler I bet. Intercooler Cores Comparison , Bar&Plate vs Tube&Fin, http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/107667-tech-bar-plate-vs-tube-fin-intercoolers.html, http://blog.perrinperformance.com/evolution-of-alta-r56-intercooler/, http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/tech.html, http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm, http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/tanks.htm. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Started Tuesday at 12:28 PM, By Tapped port for  stock oil pressure dummy s... CAM ADV Duration Duration @ 1mm Peak Lift (mm) Centerline Intake OEM EV... 4G63 and 4G64 comes in several cars. Rusty Nuts Which in turn creats less presusre drop. In general terms bar and plate design cores are more efficient in a small intercooler, opposingly fin and tube is recommended for a large one. The VR4 and GSR gearbox share most of the same gear ratios believe it or not. Thanks for the info guys, I think I might just stick with the GKTech kit, for $400 it is pretty hard to go wrong. Both have different advantages with their own pro's and con's. What Have You Done To Your Stagea Lately? View Full Version : tube & fin vs bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 AM. Remember that in front mount applications, this has a small effect on the engine water temperature, by slowing the air speed before it reaches the radiator. the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). Sign up for a new account in our community. The Nisei unit is a bar and plate intercooler using a Garrett core. To state the obvious, a 600 X 300 X 65 B&P core is not going to flow as well as a 600 X 300 X 150 T&F core. Sure a bar and plate core will cool down the air faster the first time you use it, after that the tube and fin gives superior cooling. Get a wind tunnel and run some tests using smoke trails to show the streamlines. if anything you sound like you are contradictiong SK more than me, so i think you should "Look, learn but don't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting.". A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. So it is better at taking heat out of the inlet air instantly. A single pass intercooler is where the air comes in one tank, through the core and out the opposite site. Started September 4, 2020, www.sau.com.au Introduce Yourself Here, looking for : R33 gtst gearbox rear housing. It also allows better flow to the radiator. bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. There two main designs of air to air intercooler, singe pass and duel pass. The problem I have is the generalisation, not ALL bar & plate intercoolers flow better than ALL tube and fin intercoolers. Tube and Fin Intercooler Pros Generally weighs about half as much as a bar and plate core of similar dimensions Generally less expensive Generally less flow restriction within the core than bar and plate … One cooler is not the absolute best for every vehicle. Consider joining our newsletter for the latest content updates, By Internal fin design (the fins inside the tubes that transfers the heat from the air) are simply not superior on either type of intercooler. I'd rather have a bar and plate intercooler. The prices available in dezz's current buy are the best I've seen and most users won't need to split the hair on "can it do 20 laps at full noise without temperature issues. and if you actually read what SK said and what i have said, i'm saying pretty much the same thing. The inherent design of a bar-and-plate core promotes better heat transfer and is better at handling high-boost applications than a tube-and-fin core. I know you wrote it but but have you actually read it and tried to match up with some things called fact and reality. (Thankyou Corky Bell). But they shed heat quicker than a bar and plate. Ok, so lets do the 4 tests with the Tube & Fin versus the Bar & Plate; #1 The T&F cools the inlet airlfow very effectively when moving, but the B&P has more mass. if ur planing of running a bigger turbo setup and want more HP. Started Yesterday at 08:14 AM, By tube and fin have the tubes protruding out a bit and some of the air has to do 2 180 degree turns (bar and plate do 2 90 degree turns) so there is slight turbulence. As for the “180 degree airflow reversal” argument, that’s not how the airflow in an intercooler works. The horizontal aluminum plates increase the surface area to volume ratio of the transmission fluid. They do limit the airflow to the radiator more than tube and fin cores. The Hybrid Tube & fin cooler is $1400 supplied and fitted which I thought was a bit steep, but if it is as good as they make out, then I don't mind paying the extra cash. Both have different advantages with their own pro's and con's. The Calsonic GTR used a tube and fin intercooler to totally dominate in Japan. Tube and fin vs. Bar and plate. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it, New To The Forum? Look, learn but don't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting. BigMal. By Bar and plate tends to flow better; tube and fin tends to be more efficient. Bar and Plate vs Tube and Fin, size for size I have never seen any testing showing that a Tube and Fin flows better ( Less pressure drop across the core) than a Bar and Plate. 3. the Mines GTR uses a tube and fin intercooler, the bench mark by which all road/circuit GTR’s are measured, 4. the Apexi drag GTR used a tube and in intercooler for 1100 bhp 8 sec ¼ at 160 or so mph. i'm saying that bar and plate are better for drag, and tube and fin are better for street. Intercooler Tech - Tube and Fin vs. Bar and Plate Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) (Remember that the intercooler cools intake air by heating the body of the intercooler, not by radiating heat to the outside air.) 4" P/B wins hands down for a centrifugal supercharger. Source : http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/107667-tech-bar-plate-vs-tube-fin-intercoolers.html bar and plate vs tube and fin is a harder one. the heat rejection of a tube and fin can exceed a bar and plate of the same size, it depends on tube pitch, fins per inch, etc, its all in the design... if the cooler is less restictive, you can make the same power on less boost, which will reduce your charge temp, and lower the work required by the intercooler Will be updating this thread when more options are available. cheers, dc. There are significant differences in intercoolers, not only in core construction (bar and plate or tube and fin), but also their design (especially tank design). A 3.5″ tube-and-fin core features much more narrow tubing, meaning sacrificed air flow, than a bar-and-plate core because of the extruded manufacturing process. How many examples would you like of fast Skylines using tube and fin intercoolers. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it. So having read it on the internet and regurgitated it, somewhat masticated no doubt (and a quick scan of the site showed nothing to support you 180 degree turn waffle nor is it a phenomena I would consider valid or of significance), you are now prepared to argue it with someone who actually does have somewhat more than a firm grasp of aerodynamic knowledge. If you agree, and have nothing further of value to add, read it and zip it!!! turn all you have to do is look into the intercooler. Rubbish, absolute rubbish, who the hell fed you that load of crap? The workshop reckons that tube & fin is better because it is physically lighter and flows better. I'm a bar and plate guy myself. Source : http://blog.perrinperformance.com/evolution-of-alta-r56-intercooler/ Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. Tube and find on the other hand won't achive as low a drop in temp as bar and plate as it has less surface area to remove the heat. Why is one better than the other? 04 f250 cc sb. Source : http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm I am wondering what the difference is between a Bar & Plate cooler, and a Tube & Fin cooler. Email : info@fatboyracing.com.my ", Which is best is a tough question to answer and the best answer is "It depends.". Welcome to SAU Community, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Ok, so a bar & plate does restrict airflow to the radiator, does that mean that it is likely to experience cooling problems? Just another option check out csf intercooler for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube and fin and a bar and plate . Be apart of SAU Community by signing in or creating an account. Any flow restriction is easily overcome by sizing it large enough for your needs, as long as you can make room for it. tube and fin have the tubes protruding out a bit and some of the air has to do 2 180 degree turns (bar and plate do 2 90 degree turns) so there is slight turbulence. Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. Which do you want? go for the bar & plate u will be needing it to cool down the air alot faster than a tube & fin. Instead of utilizing the tube like the tube-fin coolers, the plate and fin move the transmission fluid through horizontal aluminum plate series. There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. Dose Pipe Sutututu Essentially, unless you are running a full race car, you will be fine with a GKtech which is the best value available at the moment. People are right it is not the cheapest but it is a really nice quality piece, excellent packing and free shipping so I don't think 700$ is all that bad. you can see the lip inside there. Hence good for circuit race cars and cars that see long periods of sustained power. Tube/fin vs Bar/plate intercooler However, as the old saying goes, 'you only get what you pay for' and the same applies to intercoolers. i was looking at getting a new intercooler and was unsure of whats better tube and fin or bar and plate intercoolers? only $400, http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=117938, well the source of 'unsubstantiated crapola' is www.are.com.au. In fact their website is a bit simple so I suggest searching elsewhere. Tube-and-Fin Due to the nature of design tube-and-fin intercooler cores typically weigh less than a bar-and-plate design. Tube and fin cores are good for more constant power applications, they weigh less so not as good for instantaneous heat soak. I have, I think I'm suitably qualified to argue the semantics, and I suspect Gary would agree. info from a intercooler builder's website … they make intercoolers (air to air, air to water and dry ice coolers) so i think they might know a thing or 2. Sure if you are into drags only, go the bar and plate, as long as you let it cool down between runs. Tube-and-fin core example Bar-and-plate core example Bar-and-plate core example. Quinny, May 19, 2006 in Forced Induction Performance. a GOOD bar and plate will flow more than a cheap tube and fin. All valid questions here. If you do have anything to be taken down, please do let me know. Hence good for drag cars and road cars that get short burst of power then cruise. But if you had any understanding of aerodynamics/fluid dynamics you would know that in those regions the air either stagnates or circulates while the primary flow follows streamlines directly into the mouth of the tube. I have no temp issues on the racetrack with a Hybrid Monster 800hp cooler. the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). The Apex'i 'Hybrid' FMIC featured a combination of both, but the bar and plate part of the core was of staggered size, to provide an angled surface and thus have better airflow vs a typical 90* square bar & plate core. Tube & fin cores do penetrate the ambient air (channel the cooling air) better than bar & plate cores which penetrate better than plate tube & fin cores. I've never had engine cooling problems on my track car with a bar and plate 800hp cooler, but I was only doing a max of 7 laps at a time, in fact never noticed a temp spike in either outlet temp from the cooler or engine (well other than the back end when a cooler hose blew dumping flames out the exhaust ) but it was a quite a bit larger than the size SK tested. Tube And Fin "A conventional tube-and-fin intercooler weighs less than a bar-and-plate design," says Wang. The turbulator fin is the most visible and influential cooling component in our bar and plate cores. Source... And here are some pics which illustrate what I meant when I said the charge air entries on a bar and plate sit flush with the core...and the tube and fin entries protrude: Before someone asks, I'm a bar and plate guy myself. 22:54 Turbo Tech No comments. I can assure you that the turbulence around a poorly matched, butt end B&P joint is more of an issue. GearBox Code Vehicle Front LSD Ratio W5M33-2-NGRE   Lancer gsr RS (1992, 1800cc) ? Powered by Invision Community, bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. All you are doing is confusing the issue and misleading readers with untruths, and then attempting to say "yes but I agree". I will probably get someone else to fit it though, coz I am useless at that kind of thing. I just bought one of these mofo's. but it does aloow better flow. Source : http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/tech.html size Dates of release Plug type V-line Gap 3000 GT 6G7 3.0 97- PFR6J-11 - 1,1 3000 GT 6G72 MPI... 1. Bar and plate 12.5kg. Tube and fin cores are more common than bar and plate. Turbo flows and sizes information, random copy paste from the web. Started December 9, 2016, By Tech: Bar & Plate vs. Tube & Fin Intercoolers. Website : www.fatboyracing.com.my. Testing & comparing the 3" tube and fin vs. the 4" plate and bar intercoolers. The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. A. Tube-and-Fin vs. Bar-and-Plate. This means that more heat will move into the fins at a faster rate. Archiving useful information | Unveiling Horsepower to the Generation, There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. by NUT347 » December 14th, 2009, 7:29 am Just got a few questions. There are several companies offering Dogbox for the Mitsubishi family. Having said that, bar and plate construction uses heavier materials and will thus resist heatsoak better. I'm not saying don't participate, just confirm what you want to write first, and not from a sellers site where they have a conflict of interest. Tube and Fin gives better cooling but Bar and Plate gives better flow. I owe you a beer, brother. A bar-and-plate intercooler can better operate under high-heat conditions without losing efficiency and does a superior job transferring heat. bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. The best flowing intercoolers have always been used on Higher performance cars have all been tube and fin construction. I picked up a greddy tube and fin intercooler (600x300x60) for $250. Bar and plate intercoolers have a lot of thermal mass and work well as initial heat sinks when air flow across the core is low. notgoodwithnames This debate has been covered many times and their are pros and cons for both types, just do a google search "bar and plate tube and fin" There is more to it than just the costruction of the core, the size of the core and the end tank design has a big bearing on performance and pressure drop across the intercooler. I was wondering if anyone else can confirm or deny this and also tell me which is better for cooling capacity. better air flow and less turbo lag. It doesn't do 180 or 90 degree turns so that is a complete lie. someone posted in the other thread that tube and fin is good for circuit cars etc, as they experience prolonged periods of power...but for street and drag, bar and plate is fine... Do a search if you want the full story, in summary…….. Bar and plate cores are good if you do short power bursts, they have more aluminium (weigh more) so they are a better heat soak. There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. If you want to drive it on the road occasionally, simply swap to water with a pump and a tube and fin heat exchanger. A. Tube-and-Fin vs. Bar-and-Plate. I've seen tube and fin crack around the hot side piping. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it. Not when I can buy a dry ice to air intercooler with similar internal airflow capacity for a similar price. A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. Airflow, boost pressure, and engine displacement will all play a role in how an intercooler has an impact on the performance of your vehicle. I'm opposing Gary only on the fundamental suitability for a road car on a value for money perspective. add me to your list up there gary.... Hi quinny, I have sent you a PM regarding the cooler...so if you are in fact confirming as part of the group buy, can you get back to me on that PM? In fact that protruding tube, properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice with sharply squared edges of an equivalent area. But is it really that much better than the $400 GKTech kit? Intercooler Cores Comparison , Bar&Plate vs Tube&Fin. for a stokist setup tube & fin is the best way to go. The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. The Spark Plug FAQ: or "What spark plugs should I use in my DSM?" info from a intercooler builder's website who makes all 3 kinds of coolers. I have been talking to a couple of workshops who reckon the Hybrid Tube & Fin coolers are better than the japanese brand name coolers, because the jap ones use a bar & plate design. It's easy! Forged Pistons , Ring end gap & Piston clearance b... Twin Scroll Tech by BMW , Opel and Modified Mag, FP Turbos HTA3586, HTA3082, HTA3076 comparison, GSC & AMS 4G6X Balance Shaft , bye bye stubby shaft, ________________________________________________________. Both have differen... MITSUBISHI Model Engine Eng. Let’s face it, if I was building a dedicated drag car I wouldn’t be using an air to air B&P intercooler anyway. But they take longer to cool down. Once you can explain a few basics like settling chambers, von karman vortices, the navier stokes equations, turbulent wall growth or the meaning of a reynolds number I'll be prepared to listen, but I'll point out I'm not discussing with the owners of the website, or an expert in cooler design am I? Opposing Gary only on the fundamental suitability for a stokist setup tube & fin is better at heat... In Forced Induction performance fact that protruding tube, properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice sharply! 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Value to add, read it and tried to match up with some things called fact and.... 600X300X60 ) for $ 250 plate will flow more than a tube-and-fin core qualified to argue the,!: bar & plate that kind of thing fin gives better cooling but bar plate! More efficient & comparing the 3 '' tube and fin vs. the 4 '' P/B wins hands down a...